Did you Break in the belt first?
Commander belt exploded
Purchased a new 2012 commander 1000 in august. We have put aprox 200 miles on it.
Never been wet stuck or really ran very hard at all.(never slipped belt)
I knew when I test drove it that the bucking and jerking was very excessive I purchased it anyway.
Yesterday we went to flat river in mo.i rode for aprox 45 minutes got out on a good streched put her to the floor hit about 45 and all hell broke loose.
I new the belt was gone so we pulled her back to the trailer called the dealer got it in and they pulled it appart ASAP awesome dealer.
Now the only problem is that the dealer won't warranty it and the belt was completely destroyed it is in small pieces.
Has anyone seen or heard of such a thing and does anyone have any good advice?
I told the dealer that for the price I paid I would not accept anything other than full warranty coverage on the belt and any other charges from this belt explosion problem.
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Never been wet stuck or really ran very hard at all.(never slipped belt)
I knew when I test drove it that the bucking and jerking was very excessive I purchased it anyway.
Yesterday we went to flat river in mo.i rode for aprox 45 minutes got out on a good streched put her to the floor hit about 45 and all hell broke loose.
I new the belt was gone so we pulled her back to the trailer called the dealer got it in and they pulled it appart ASAP awesome dealer.
Now the only problem is that the dealer won't warranty it and the belt was completely destroyed it is in small pieces.
Has anyone seen or heard of such a thing and does anyone have any good advice?
I told the dealer that for the price I paid I would not accept anything other than full warranty coverage on the belt and any other charges from this belt explosion problem.
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1 - 20 of 45 Posts
It was rode with the power reduction key most of the time the first week never really timed it but it had at least 50 miles on before it was taken up to 50,
The machine has never seen top speed.
The machine has never seen top speed.
I think the bucking and jerking you describe in the test drive may have had something to do with it. hopefully the dealer does you right and warranties it.
Do you always run it in high? I think some guys on here said that it could wear your belt and cause this when running in high when you should be in low. Im sure someone will chime in and help ya. Goodluck to ya and I hope your dealer helps ya out.
Same camo 2012
Same issue
Then we found out that one side of the pulley had small bumps which cause rubbing the belt all the time
The dealer changed it under the warranty and now it's fine
But am still smoking the belts and I guess coz of the heat over here
Same issue
Then we found out that one side of the pulley had small bumps which cause rubbing the belt all the time
The dealer changed it under the warranty and now it's fine
But am still smoking the belts and I guess coz of the heat over here
It's cause the stock clutches are garbage. The reason you had imperfections on one side of the belt is because the crank side of the primary, when under a heavy load, will spin faster than the outer part, in turn ruining a belt.
We haven't ever had this issue a QSC Primary.
We haven't ever had this issue a QSC Primary.
mine did the same thing at about 350 miles running straight on pavement and then boom belt in 1000 pieces
5 Things not to do to ANY CVT Clutch
1) holding the gas down constantly on the side of a hill in order to keep your machine from rolling backwards. this is engaging the clutch to the belt just enough that the machine wont roll backwards, but the clutch is slipping the belt just enough that it wont allow the machine to pull forwards either. this is the worst possible thing you can do and is a very very big no-no for ANY clutch setup
2) trying to stall the machine higher than the primary spring will allow by standing on the brakes, and gas at the same time to try and get a higher RPM launch. this is slipping the belt burning a flat spot in the belt, destroying the belt and actually giving you a mushy launch.
3) running at a constant speed for a prolonged period of time. running 65 mph continually on an open road for 5 miles constant, will leave you with a blown belt. you must vary your speeds occasionally in order for the belt to change its gear ratio in the clutch so the belt can continually cool itself off.
4) backing up, reverse, under loads like stuck in a mud hole or backing up a hill when the reverse limiter kicks in. this is VERY bad on the clutches because every time the engine dies, the clutch releases the belt and when the engine fires back up, the clutch tries to grab the belt again. in a high load situation like stuck in a mud hole, the clutch will be continually opening and closing so rapidly, it cant adequately hold the belt, and will smoke the belt. your best bet is to hold the reverse over-ride button when backing up in high load situations in order to keep from slipping the belt
5) trying to climb hills, pull big mud tires, or ride thru mud holes at slow speeds in high range. BIG BIG BIG no no. any high load situation like pulling a trailer, running big mud tires, or stopping and starting on hills at slow speeds in high range is too high of a load for high range. these situations call for low range. when you are toodling down the trails at 20-40 mph you can run high, but in a high load situation like slow speeds, running thru mud, things like that where the loads are greatest, low is your only option.
1) holding the gas down constantly on the side of a hill in order to keep your machine from rolling backwards. this is engaging the clutch to the belt just enough that the machine wont roll backwards, but the clutch is slipping the belt just enough that it wont allow the machine to pull forwards either. this is the worst possible thing you can do and is a very very big no-no for ANY clutch setup
2) trying to stall the machine higher than the primary spring will allow by standing on the brakes, and gas at the same time to try and get a higher RPM launch. this is slipping the belt burning a flat spot in the belt, destroying the belt and actually giving you a mushy launch.
3) running at a constant speed for a prolonged period of time. running 65 mph continually on an open road for 5 miles constant, will leave you with a blown belt. you must vary your speeds occasionally in order for the belt to change its gear ratio in the clutch so the belt can continually cool itself off.
4) backing up, reverse, under loads like stuck in a mud hole or backing up a hill when the reverse limiter kicks in. this is VERY bad on the clutches because every time the engine dies, the clutch releases the belt and when the engine fires back up, the clutch tries to grab the belt again. in a high load situation like stuck in a mud hole, the clutch will be continually opening and closing so rapidly, it cant adequately hold the belt, and will smoke the belt. your best bet is to hold the reverse over-ride button when backing up in high load situations in order to keep from slipping the belt
5) trying to climb hills, pull big mud tires, or ride thru mud holes at slow speeds in high range. BIG BIG BIG no no. any high load situation like pulling a trailer, running big mud tires, or stopping and starting on hills at slow speeds in high range is too high of a load for high range. these situations call for low range. when you are toodling down the trails at 20-40 mph you can run high, but in a high load situation like slow speeds, running thru mud, things like that where the loads are greatest, low is your only option.
2700 miles and i just changed the belt, the original is still more than usable.
I have yet to remove and dis-assemble my clutch on the commander, but I have removed, serviced, and rebuilt snowmobile clutches since I was old enough to turn a wrench. my question is, how can the outer sheave on the primary clutch spin at a different speed than the inner sheave? is the shaft not splined or is it a taper shaft on the fixed half? even with a tapered shaft there should be zero independant movement of the sheaves in relation to each other. please enlighten meIt's cause the stock clutches are garbage. The reason you had imperfections on one side of the belt is because the crank side of the primary, when under a heavy load, will spin faster than the outer part, in turn ruining a belt.
We haven't ever had this issue a QSC Primary.
It's actually just the opposite. The inner part spins faster than the outer (when under a load) because it's attached to the crank. Not at all times. 90%of the time they work in unison. And yes, it's a 2 piece design, not bolted/pinned/splined together like other designs. Pull ANY belt off of ANY can am with stock clutching and look at the inside of the belt. It'll be glazed more or will have torn threads. It is impossible to lock them together. The only thing that holds the sheaves together is the tension and force that it gets from torquing down the primary bolt. Like I said it's a terrible design. Have you pulled your belt box off? You should pull the primary apart and look for yourself. When you replace your belt make sure you clean your clutches really well. It'll help prolong the life of your next belt. Or if you want a QSC primary hit me up, I can get you taken care of.I have yet to remove and dis-assemble my clutch on the commander, but I have removed, serviced, and rebuilt snowmobile clutches since I was old enough to turn a wrench. my question is, how can the outer sheave on the primary clutch spin at a different speed than the inner sheave? is the shaft not splined or is it a taper shaft on the fixed half? even with a tapered shaft there should be zero independant movement of the sheaves in relation to each other. please enlighten meIt's cause the stock clutches are garbage. The reason you had imperfections on one side of the belt is because the crank side of the primary, when under a heavy load, will spin faster than the outer part, in turn ruining a belt.
We haven't ever had this issue a QSC Primary.
Kris, is it beneficial to run just the QSC primary ?
how does the fixed half attach to the crank stub, is the stub tapered or splined? I am assuming the fixed half and outer half are attached to the crank using the same bolt. can you remove the outer half while the fixed half remains on the crank? if the moveavble half spins on the fixed half shaft, I would think there would be devastating wear very quickly on the fixed half shaft.
I have had the cover off during servicing, I did not see any irregular wear on the belt at all. anytime there is wear on one side of the belt more than the other in a snowmobile application it is due to mis-alignment. with the commander clutches both mounted to the engine/transmission that certainly could not be the issue. the clutches have to be offset somewhat to account for the action of the secondary inner sheave moving when shifting out as opposed to the outer half of the primary clutch that does the movement. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion the two primary sheaves can turn at different rpm regardless of load. the press fit between them would wear very quickly.
I have had the cover off during servicing, I did not see any irregular wear on the belt at all. anytime there is wear on one side of the belt more than the other in a snowmobile application it is due to mis-alignment. with the commander clutches both mounted to the engine/transmission that certainly could not be the issue. the clutches have to be offset somewhat to account for the action of the secondary inner sheave moving when shifting out as opposed to the outer half of the primary clutch that does the movement. I have a hard time wrapping my head around the notion the two primary sheaves can turn at different rpm regardless of load. the press fit between them would wear very quickly.
the inner sheave is counterbored with a taper, to fit the tapered crankshaft. just like any typical snowmobile setup, the inner half of the clutch fits the tapered crank.
the outermost end of that inner clutch sheave is counterbored and tapered as well. i dont have exact measurements but i would say somewhere around a 3-1 taper.
the outer movable sheave of the clutch and spyder is all aluminum. the outer spyder has a male taper machined into the center to affix to the female taper on the inner shaft.
the aluminum outer assembly is held and pressed against the steel hardened inner assembly only by the tension of the primary bolt. although you are familiar with tapers, and you know a clutch should never slip on a taper, you have apparently never used dis-similar metals to create tapers. this aluminum/steel contact will easily slip, and it is designed to do so. the outer half of the clutch is designed to slip under loads. look at the inner bore of the fixed sheave shaft after you pull the outer half of your clutch off. that hardened black taper will be shiny silver from the outer half of the aluminnum clutch slipping in the taper.
the outermost end of that inner clutch sheave is counterbored and tapered as well. i dont have exact measurements but i would say somewhere around a 3-1 taper.
the outer movable sheave of the clutch and spyder is all aluminum. the outer spyder has a male taper machined into the center to affix to the female taper on the inner shaft.
the aluminum outer assembly is held and pressed against the steel hardened inner assembly only by the tension of the primary bolt. although you are familiar with tapers, and you know a clutch should never slip on a taper, you have apparently never used dis-similar metals to create tapers. this aluminum/steel contact will easily slip, and it is designed to do so. the outer half of the clutch is designed to slip under loads. look at the inner bore of the fixed sheave shaft after you pull the outer half of your clutch off. that hardened black taper will be shiny silver from the outer half of the aluminnum clutch slipping in the taper.
the clutches on my newer sleds are indexed so that they are assembled the same every time. I have never seen the index marks mis-aligned anytime I have removed them. my sleds are putting out a lot more hp than my commander. my older sleds had splined shafts to connect the halves, the newer stuff is tapered fit.the inner sheave is counterbored with a taper, to fit the tapered crankshaft. just like any typical snowmobile setup, the inner half of the clutch fits the tapered crank.
the outermost end of that inner clutch sheave is counterbored and tapered as well. i dont have exact measurements but i would say somewhere around a 3-1 taper.
the outer movable sheave of the clutch and spyder is all aluminum. the outer spyder has a male taper machined into the center to affix to the female taper on the inner shaft.
the aluminum outer assembly is held and pressed against the steel hardened inner assembly only by the tension of the primary bolt. although you are familiar with tapers, and you know a clutch should never slip on a taper, you have apparently never used dis-similar metals to create tapers. this aluminum/steel contact will easily slip, and it is designed to do so. the outer half of the clutch is designed to slip under loads. look at the inner bore of the fixed sheave shaft after you pull the outer half of your clutch off. that hardened black taper will be shiny silver from the outer half of the aluminnum clutch slipping in the taper.
I'm not saying that you guys are wrong, just that I have never heard of this as an issue with any CVT clutches I have experience with.
Most definitelyKris, is it beneficial to run just the QSC primary ?
Did you get any assistance from your dealer on warranty work?mine did the same thing at about 350 miles running straight on pavement and then boom belt in 1000 pieces
I still have a problem with believing the primary clutch moveable sheave is designed to slip on the taper under load.the inner sheave is counterbored with a taper, to fit the tapered crankshaft. just like any typical snowmobile setup, the inner half of the clutch fits the tapered crank.
the outermost end of that inner clutch sheave is counterbored and tapered as well. i dont have exact measurements but i would say somewhere around a 3-1 taper.
the outer movable sheave of the clutch and spyder is all aluminum. the outer spyder has a male taper machined into the center to affix to the female taper on the inner shaft.
the aluminum outer assembly is held and pressed against the steel hardened inner assembly only by the tension of the primary bolt. although you are familiar with tapers, and you know a clutch should never slip on a taper, you have apparently never used dis-similar metals to create tapers. this aluminum/steel contact will easily slip, and it is designed to do so. the outer half of the clutch is designed to slip under loads. look at the inner bore of the fixed sheave shaft after you pull the outer half of your clutch off. that hardened black taper will be shiny silver from the outer half of the aluminnum clutch slipping in the taper.
does your clutch work address this issue, and if so, what method do you apply to prevent this from happening?
heres a pic of the culprit, the outer sheave will slip.I have yet to remove and dis-assemble my clutch on the commander, but I have removed, serviced, and rebuilt snowmobile clutches since I was old enough to turn a wrench. my question is, how can the outer sheave on the primary clutch spin at a different speed than the inner sheave? is the shaft not splined or is it a taper shaft on the fixed half? even with a tapered shaft there should be zero independant movement of the sheaves in relation to each other. please enlighten meIt's cause the stock clutches are garbage. The reason you had imperfections on one side of the belt is because the crank side of the primary, when under a heavy load, will spin faster than the outer part, in turn ruining a belt.
We haven't ever had this issue a QSC Primary.
<img src="http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq349/warlock250/Rotax Clutch Stocker/1-30-2010IPHONEPICS026.jpg">
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