Can-Am Commander Forum banner

1 - 20 of 26 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I figure the Maverick is so close to the same thing as the Commander that you guys should have some good input for me.

I have had my new to me 2014 Maverich XRS out on several runs over the past couple months. This rig has about 6000 miles on it. It was street registered in Arizona, but it did see some mud running. I recently installed a Razorback belt temp gauge. I noticed that all thought the BRP belt it came with was in great shape, it was measuring at the limit of the acceptable belt width at the cord (1.80”). So I decided to replace it with another BRP belt. There was no significant debris or built up of gunk on the sheaves so I just put it on. I cycled it twice just driving it around the neighborhood. Temp was running at about 180°F-190°F cruising the street at 20-30 MPH. If I gave it a couple moderate accelerations from a stop the temp would go up to about 200°F. After each warm up I took it home, ran the RPM’s up to about 2500 to get the belt to cool to about 160°F and then shut it down for the night. I figured this was normal during break-in.

I took it out to Hungry Valley for some easy running on some hard pack dirt roads and sand washes. It was not possible to keep the temp below 200° with any sort of driving style. I said screw it and ran it for the day. I saw temps over 240°F frequently. If I stopped and revved it in neutral I could get the temp to come down rapidly, but within minutes of driving the temp would go back up pretty rapidly. I also noticed a small squeal had developed at low RPM that was not there before.

After doing some research I am pretty sure something is wrong. It looks like most of you run normally in the 160°F to 180°F range and the only time it goes up from there is when you just did something that is not normal driving and you know it. Even then I have not seen any reports of exceeding 200°F unless you are really trying to fry the belt.

So I am going to tear in to the clutches and would like some input on what to look for. Here is what I have so far:
- Belt condition (width/damage)
- Debris or buildup on the sheaves
- Clogged inlet/exhaust for the CVT venting
- Clogged CVT inlet filter (was cleaned when I did the temp sensor/belt)
- Primary and secondary looks like it is working when running in neutral
- One-way clutch bearing
- Remove primary and inspect all moving parts for wear/binding/modifications
- Remove secondary clutch and inspect all moving parts for wear/binding/modifications
- Spring condition
- Make sure the clutch bolts are the post recall design.
- Replace one-way clutch bearings with sealed bearings (I already bought these)
- Grease and reassemble one-way clutch bearing assembly
- Examine Sheave surfaces and hand sand them with 400 grit. Final pattern going from hub out, not along belt path.
- Wipe down the sheaves and belt with Acetone right before remounting belt.
- Clean new belt with soap/water and install

So what else should I be looking for?

What specific break in should I be doing on a new belt. Be specific, for instance:
1. Drive using less than ___% throttle for ___ minutes or until the belt heats up to ___°F.
2. Return to camp.
3. Run RPM up to 2000 in neutral to cool belt to ___°F and shut down.
4. Let sit for ___ minutes.
5. Repeat this process ___ times.

I am totally about doing it myself. I have built a couple 4 wheel drive vehicles. I have rebuilt the motor for my ATC 350X while I was replacing the case half from a chain breakage. I have the factory manual for this unit. Hell, I am in the middle of putting ram assist steering on my Mountaineer.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,733 Posts
Does this maverick have the second air inlet that draws its air from behind the driver seat . It would of had a hose hook up lined up with the secondary .

My 14 maverick had terrible high belt temps so I put a turbo primary on because mine was slipping very bad and I also did the qrs secondary upgrade .
I know that the qrs moves more than double the air flow and because of what I changed my belt temps are way lower . I can hold the hammer down for a 1/2 mile and the temp will maybe hit 205


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Troy,

Thanks for replying. I couldn't have asked for a better person to reply ;)

I do not have the secondary inlet on the cover.

I have been reading about the lock mods. It sounds like you have moved on from the mod you were doing with UATV and on to the turbo parts. Ebay wants over $500 for that. OUCH! I will try a couple other sources and see how low can it go.

I investigated the clutches tonight. Nothing obvious stuck out and got my attention....... that is until I removed my primary. I can see obvious signs that the taper had been slipping. I also noticed that the bolt that holds this on to the crank was not as tight as I would have thought it would be. Pretty sure it took allot less than 80 ftlb to release it. There is a weird swirl pattern on both sides of the belt also.

I plan to do some rock crawling, rock climbing, rocky trails possibly towing a small off road trailer loaded with camping gear. Me and my wife are not small people so just alone load this thing to its capacity. At some point I am sure I will be going with a bit larger tires, but not over 31 ever in my imagination. No mudding, but I will occasionally do sand. Top speed is not important, but I will get to whatever top speed this is capable of. I do love a nice strong acceleration from a stop. I do not have any plans to do any crazy engine mods to increase the power. Probably would have never considered modding the clutch except it seems like it is necessary to extend belt life. I may at some point look in to a selectable locker for the front diff.

With that description, would you point me more towards the lock mod or the BRP square flange upgrade?

And how the hell do you remove the stud? I am planning on buying a pair of nuts to lock on to the stud and try turning it out that way.

Thanks for you help.

Dan
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
I also noticed some weird stuff on the washers that hold the primary on. I think some of this is just normal rust, but some of it looks like it is burnished from slipping.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
It had the single seal bearings in the one-way. They had some lube in there, but it was in need of service. One of the bearings was dragging a bit on something. I am replacing them with double sealed bearings so no big deal there.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
This is caused by running with the bolt to loose. Remove the stud and get a bolt from UATV-TECH tighten to 95-100 ft. lbs. with some 243 loctite. I'd lap the spider with the taper to get a good contact patch, looks like it's only contacting about 1/2 the cone. The belt looks pretty good to me but might be glazed over, good cleaning and scotchbrite pad. Also do not get acetone on the bushings (not good).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,733 Posts
The only mod on a maverick clutch that might hold is a double lock . I would try the taper clean up and if not happy move on to a different clutch . The second inlet clutch cover was a free upgrade on the mavericks
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #8
What is this double lock mod?

I'll lap the interface no matter what I do. I think I will also order the upgraded bolt as suggested also.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
Replacing the P.O.S. OEM bolt may remedy the slip in your clutch along with your clean and lap and torque plan but can I add acetone is some strong chit and may not be the best thing for the belt! I would recommend just washing with the dish soap and rinsing thoroughly,best of luck.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,733 Posts
If your clutch is a slipper using a standard bolt might not be a good plan .
If a stock clutch is not a slipper a better bolt is a great idea .
If your clutch is a slipper having a bolt and not the stud setup is taking a big risk . The clutch if it’s a slipper will keep turning the bolt in until it busts then parts go flying . If taper cleaning stops the slipping a HD bolt will hold it tight and life will be good . Do the marker test on the clutch faces after the taper cleanup . DONT use a bolt if it’s still a slip clutch . BRP used studs because they can’t over tighten from slipping taper .
Just my .02 cents guys
Take it or not
Good day
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #12
Thanks for all the input guys. I just picked up some valve grinding compound, will attack this tonight and see whats what.

On lapping this in, I was thinking of starting the motor and letting it idle while I engage the spider on to the taper. I think this will help expedite the lapping process without any significant risk to my fingers. I am estimating that the gulling is going to take removing at least 0.005" of material to get a 90% or better cleanup. Not sure how long that will take with valve grinding compound and steel components but I know that removing that much material on aluminum with 20µm diamond paper is allot of work.

Plan the work:
- Scotch-brite the sides of the belt and wash in soap/water.
- Finish rebuilding the one-way bearing
- Clean all dust from clutches and sheaves.
- Scotch-brite the sheaves from inside to outside.
- Lap the primary clutch taper.
- Clean everything with brake cleaner.
- Assemble the one-way clutch
- Assemble the primary clutch - line up the inside/outside sheave marks
- Clean the sheaves with acetone, careful not to run acetone down in to the one way bearing.
- Install the belt
- Take for a tour of my neighborhood
- Inspect for sheave slippage
- Install the covers
- Take it for a ride this weekend.

Now to work the plan.

Dan
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,733 Posts
It’s two locking points rather then one . A single won’t hold on a mav
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
I got it all put together tonight and took it for a 2.5 mile cruise of my neighborhood. It is about 70°F out. lots of stops and accelerations. Cruising speed of 35MPH at 5500RPM. Brought it up to just under 6000 RPM as I was accelerating. Belt temp slowly climbed up to 180°F. This is as light duty of travel as it gets. I'm thinking I still have a problem. I will remove the cover tomorrow evening and see if the outer sheave is moving.

Thanks for all the help guys. It sure increases confidence.
 

Attachments

·
Registered
Joined
·
267 Posts
If your sheave marks are right on check the torque setting one more time, I usually get a little more after they seat in.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #17
Sheave marks? What am I looking for?

When I remove the cover tonight looking to see if the sheaves have moved I will re-torque the nut (after backing out the set screw).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,169 Posts
I think you got it, the inner (engine side) and and outer marks that you highlighted with red arrows in your pic in same alignment as when they were marked. Usually a few full throttle take offs from stopped will tell if it's going to slip. The cone contact patch looks real good!!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Well I opened it up last night and it slipped at least 30°, if not a multiple of 360° from there. This was after a total of 6 miles of 1/2 throttle or less driving on pavement with 2 full throttle accelerations at the end. I started digging and I am in the process of picking up a set of clutches from a 2017 Maverick Max turbo for $350. Let the mods begin!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18 Posts
Discussion Starter #20 (Edited)
So the deal with the full set of Maverick clutches fell thru. I ended up buying the 2 parts of the primary new and installing them. Pretty quick and easy. I did have to fab a tool to hold the clutch while torquing the bolt, but that was supper easy. Bikebandit.com easily had the best prices.

I just finished the trip I was preparing for. Apparently my belt temp gauge maxes out at 270°F. I saw that point several times in the first couple days of driving it. At that point I was at the "screw it" stage and just kept going. I had 2 spare belts with me and all the tools and knowledge to change it out in about 30 min. The belt did not fail though.

The first 2 days of running it was all primarily at 20-40 MPH. These were all basically fire roads at 6000-8000 feet at Zermat Utah. I spent most of the time in 4WD and low range since it looks like I can run over 40 MPH in low range. Belt would gradually heat up and rarely run at less than 210°F.

The next stage of my adventure was in Ouray/Silverton/Lake City Colorado. These are trails between 9000-12500 feet. Again, mainly rough fire roads. Since we were by ourselves I tried to keep it easy. Most of the driving was at 5-20 MPH with occasional blasts up to 40 MPH. Here is where I noticed something. At 5-20 MPH the belt would actually run under 200°F. I would have to be pretty abusive to get it over 200°F. But when I get up to 30 MPH the belt temp would start going up, Even if I was going downhill.

So from this I am wondering if the problem is more associated to the secondary clutch. Any thoughts?

Between my wife, myself and the equipment/supplies we were carrying I figure we had a total of about 750 pounds in the Maverick.
 
1 - 20 of 26 Posts
Top